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2013 Questions on the McHenry James Bond Astro Spiral Jump

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:58 pm
by MSI
July 2013: Q from Andreas Tsombos: A few friends and I are really interested in trying to recreate the spiral jump that your company helped to create.
  • We are really big fans and our hobby is to create different car related jumps and stunts in a scaled down form. We have watched both the original thrill show jumps and the jump in the James Bond movie. We have done research and trying to understand as much as possible but we don't want to jump to any conclusions without professional advice and help. Our goal is to do a scale version of the stunt if it is possible and then go full scale with a car, maybe a normal sedan.
    As far as we can figure out from the several attempts and versions of the jump is, that the cars in these videos manage to rotate fairly well, but the cars attitude and orientation keeps pointing upwards at maybe 45 degrees instead of gradually turning to a nose down attitude. I have the Dyrdek Chevy video in mind here.
    I have read on your website that you wrote that if they had contacted you, you could have helped them with some minor adjustments and they could have performed the jump more successfully. Now we wonder if this is something we could get help with? We really want to give it a go and so if there are any specific things that must be changed or if more information is needed, please write them down.
A: Thanks for your interest in the jump.
  • I believe all the elements required for running the jump properly are contained in the McHenry Spiral Jump Patent. Have you had a chance to read that document? We are not sure why others who tried the stunt perhaps either didn't read that document or didn't apply properly what is contained in the document in their attempts to perform the stunt.
    Once you read that document, let us know if any questions come up.
    In the meantime I'll take another look at it and see if maybe something is missing. I believe everything required is included in McHenry Spiral Jump Patent.
    I'll give it another read in the next week or so and let you know if anything is missing.
    Good Luck! let us know if any questions come up!

Re: 2013 Questions on the McHenry James Bond Astro Spiral Ju

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:01 pm
by MSI
Q: Andreas Tsombos wrote: Hello and thank you for the answer.
  • I have read the McHenry Spiral Jump patent a while back but I will give it a read again this week because I think it will be a bit clearer this time.
    • I will think about any questions as I read it carefully but for now I just have two small ones. In Figure 5 in the patent, the car's right front wheel travels along a guiding rail I think.
      figure 5.jpg
      figure 5.jpg (48.42 KiB) Viewed 3395 times
      Is this necessary and was it used for the actual jumps?
      If you take a look at team hot wheels version of the jump, you will see that it basicly crash lands and breaks the landing ramp. Instead of a auxillary wheel they used a rail that ran along the full length of the ramp and the belly of the buggy car they used was flat, without having a thing to catch the rail. Maybe the rail instead of the castor wheel was the wrong way to go?
      All in all I think that they did the jump way too different to the original. Something must be causing it.
    A: In answer to your questions:
    • 1) The guide rails were to help guide the vehicle driven by stunt drivers to be at the proper lateral location on the ramps. Realize that this stunt was used in a traveling stunt show for years and until Bumps Willert came along many drivers came in too slow and off track which made for many unsuccessful stunts (the landing ramps were offset laterally from the take off ramps so drivers would try to compensate. Read the write up on Bumps Willert to understand what was required to get the jump right every time!)

      2) The Hotwheels folks were on the right track with their use of the guide rail (Their vehicle was independent rear suspension instead of rear axle in the original vehicle. With the rear axle the caster went on the differential.
    The MAJOR difference between the James Bond version and the one's by Drydek and Hotwheels has to do with the different sizes and properties of the cars used for the stunt.
    Neither of the folks performing those stunts had the car's inertial properties measured. Also neither used a proper simulation program to determine how the different properties affected the vehicular response when climbing the ramps.
    • the Drydek folks used simulation with a different simulation program than HVOSM without much success (Hint: RollYaw product: the acceleration in roll produces a Yaw response, measuring (and using in simulation) is essential to proper simulation of the stunt).
    • The Hotwheels folks simply tried to use the original ramps with modifications and used several tests runs into cardboard box landing zones to determine what tweaks might be implemented to provide for a better landing
    From the original spiral stunt one of the things found was that if both the front and rear right side wheels climbed the ramp that the gyroscopic precession created by the acceleration in roll would cause the rear end of the vehicle to swing around such that it's heading direction would yaw sideways as it spun 360 making it land improperly. That is the reason for the drop section and kick on the rear end to prevent that from happening. This was what happened to the Drydek vehicle. In the Hotwheels instance the folks used the original ramp design modified for the different vehicle which made it much better than than Drydek but still not as sweet and perfect as the James Bond version.
    While designing and setting up your scale model keep those things in mind!

Re: 2013 Questions on the McHenry James Bond Astro Spiral Ju

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:24 pm
by MSI
Q: Andreas Tsombos wrote: Thank you for the reply. Really good and easy to understand.
  • I read it as that the on the upper section of the ramp used to guide drivers, was removed or ignored by Willard. I have not read his story yet so I might be wrong here.
    And I understand now that the castor wheel on the differential in the Javelin was because it was rear axle and that the hot wheels folks didn't have that option with their buggy.
    If, unlike the two others, I find out about the car's inertial properties and apply the different properties for size, weight and aerodynamic shape etc, it it possible to use a simulation program that is proper like the HVOSM to determine how the new ramp should be made? So that the different car will not do something unexpected. On a side note.. Is it possible to use a very similar car to the Javelin but not the exact model?
    Lastly, I am not sure how to read the design and the small numbers placed at different sections. What angles they used among other things
A: The use of HVOSM would be great and perhaps we can squeeze in some spare-time assistance (unless of course you have a budget?).
  • Probably the reason the others decided to 'go it alone' was in order to use simulation to redesign the stunt would require a budget for vehicle measurements and then simulations used in combination with some full-scale testing. That was how the original stunt was designed.
    As far as using a similar vehicle, the actual stunt vehicle was modified slightly with such things as driver positioned in the center of the vehicle and heavy duty shocks (truck shocks as i recall).
    • The central positioning of the driver was to provide symmetry.
    • The heavy duty shocks were to provide stiffer spring resistance so on launch and landing less movement.
    I will have to have a chat with my father, Raymond R McHenry, this week when we get together as usual to work on some software projects to see what other modifications were required to the stunt vehicle used in the McHenry James Bond Astro Spiral Jump.
    • Ray retired 8 or so years ago from litigation consulting but we continue to frequently work together on McHenry Software projects.
    • This is the weekend so I've been winging it on responses and answering from my prior discussions with Ray and knowledge on the subject matter.
    My father Raymond R McHenry was and is the true genius behind the HVOSM program and the McHenry James Bond Astro Spiral Jump stunt and many other pioneering projects in the field of highway safety so I'll double check with him when we get together this week.

Re: 2013 Questions on the McHenry James Bond Astro Spiral Ju

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:32 am
by MSI
Q Andreas Tsombos wrote: Thanks! Some spare-time assistance would be very appreciated for sure. In case of a budget, what budget will be necessary in order to do the most important things?
  • And is it possible to calculate in the HVOSM to run the jump with a scale model of a car, or is it better to turn it into a full scale? I am not sure it it will be the same thing to compare scale to full-scale and only adjust it for the real car later.
    I have read about the driver position and heavy-duty shocks and it sounds logical. I have a few full scale cars in mind that are very cheap and functional so in that case I will show them to you later when I know what kind it will be.
    I am also thinking about the building of the ramps themselves. I know the real ones were made of wood, but do you know where it might be possible to get them built since it is harder for me to do it with the equipment I have?
    It is great to hear that you two still work together and enjoy the job. I am sure he is happy to help. Looking forward to hear about it.
A: As far as budget, that will be hard to quantify at this point.
  • Once you decide on a vehicle, or scale vehicle (yes, scale sized vehicles can also be simulated) then we'd have to see what information is available about vehicle specifications and whether vehicle measurements would have to be made. So first part of the budget would be getting an organization to measure the vehicle or scale model properties. For example the Transportation Research Center has been making measurements of vehicle properties and included them in publications and they can also do individual vehicles.
    As far as building ramps, not sure. You might contact the Hot Wheels folks to see where they got their metal ramps built. Material is not as important as dimensions. We may have some scale drawings around I'll take a look to see.